"This blog – The Gentle Souls’ Revolution – is providing the opportunity to reveal a secret: Between August 2006 through August 2011, I fell prey to a cult that presents itself as a secret esoteric school. It calls itself school."
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Sharon Gans
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41 comments:
Great to see the new blog up!
Oh Frabjous day! Callou Callay! You are all wonderful, brave people. Telling your story in this way is a great way to aid healing. Also, the more of our personal and direct stories - whether about leaving, abuses or positive experiences with people we knew there - only help others searchign for healing and truth. Rock on, rock on.
Nice blog!
It's great to hear that you and your husband were able to talk about school after him finding the blog/site. I'm sure it wasn't easy. And koodoos to you for bringing it up in class. You're absolutely right - it is his business, as your husband, to know.
My feeling is, if these events were not true then they would have an explaination for it - or would laugh it off in their customary dismissive way. NOT make a rule that says you can't go online or use the internet. And not be defensive about the very mention of the media or press.
I didn't find the blog until after I decided to leave school, and only recently told my wife about it and my whole 'school' experience. She has been such a rock of support for me. She is very understanding about it all.
I didn't think she would believe a word of it, but she listened and listened and listened. She did not judge me or react in anyway. All that I felt from her was love and compassion.
Telling her was the most freeing thing that I've ever done. Years of holding things in all of the sudden out in the open. What a breath of fresh air and a huge weight off my chest!
Finially now, after years of being with her, I feel that we are having the most intimate time of our lives. We are started down a whole new road together.
Looking back now, I highly doubt that this would have happened while in 'school'. I had many positive experiences while I was there, but nothing that I can think of really made me more intimate at all, with anyone - especially with my wife.
It is completely mind boggling at how ironic it is to have the greatest sense of freedom only to come after leaving a 'school' whos main purpose is freedom.
Just to be rid of the fear of leaving 'school' alone is enough to walk out the door...
I honestly didn't know how afraid I was, especial of leaving 'school'
until I actually left.
I hope others will post more about their experiences, they will help everyone - not only those of us that are out, but those that are still in and wondering how their friends are doing.
Hey Everyone,
Thanks so much for reading and for your comments. There's more coming, as it seems to be writing itself.
ST - I just wanted to confirm that it's wonderful you've freed yourself from keeping secrets from your wife.
And yes, breaking the silence is the key to your freedom in general!
Congrats! Enjoy! Break the "rules". ;-)
Good work on the new blog. Brave work.
I've been out for a long time. For the first year, being in that group was often a good experience(I was there for most of the 90s). I loved the ideas, but something about the group always felt "off"--maybe because it is a cult and I didn't realize it at the time. The cliquey-ness, the headgames, and the hierarchical crap was depressing.
I'm saddened when I see that people I knew when I was there are there still, thinking they are so much more "awake" than the rest of the world. Leaving felt like freedom and relief. It's nice not to be someone else's revenue stream, or free labor. Plus I get to watch my daughter grow up and not be on call for lines of work or making sure a cult leader has the right amount of chicken soup in his bowl or the precise number of ice cubes in her glass. If I ever bump into the person I recruited into the "school," I will apologize and beg his forgiveness.
To Not Groucho -
If you recruited people into school, and they are still there, dont' you think you at least owe it to them (and possibly yourself) to try to call them or send a letter telling them how you followed a formula, and you believe differently about school? Why wait until you "run into them" to apologize? Maybe that contact from you is what they need to break loose.
I agree that it could be healing to both of you to reach out to anyone you recruited. I never recruited anyone (really resisted this line of work in every possible way, it never sat well with me) so I don't have that lingering feeling of guilt about it, but I DO feel have lots of strange/sad feelings about the person who recruited me. She left school long before I did and never, ever reached out to me. I wish she had! When I was still in school and began having serious doubts, I almost called her several times to ask her why she left. I did not (it would have been a major leak, after all). Today, I've not yet been in touch with her. I'm kind of angry, actually. I know she was just following directions and under immense pressure. She was indoctrinated as we all were and just trying to please her teachers and advance in her "work on herself" etc. But, why no conscience on her part, ever?
I'm not trying to make you feel bad, please don't take it that way. I just somtimes feel that some of us who've left neglect to take responsibility for our behavior when we were in and I'm trying to do this now (like the times when I "piled on" somebody receiving a verbal lashing from teachers/classmates, or did not speak up when I saw something happening I just KNEW was wrong...etc.). I personally feel that taking responsibility for my actions (within reason because, yes, it was a cult and Yes, the pressure was intense) and trying to set things right with any people I can will only further my healing --- it will help me to better understand myself. Why was I susecptible to this kind of pressure? Why am I someone who needs approval so deeply? Do I have a mean streak? Am I someone who's interested in power? Why? Why is power over others so attractive to me? Is it becaues I feel inherently powerless and without value? It all goes back to certain very skewed dynamics in my childhood and is part of my healing and growth as a human being.... I'm speaking very personally here in hopes that it may help others on their individual journeys....
I would add that the best we can do is make the effort. The results are up to Fate (fill in your own name for it).
I was contacted while I was in school. I didn't budge, and I thought the "out" person was going on a fruitless search amongst people who didn't know anything real. This occurred while I was miserable, broke, and crippled by self-doubt in daily functioning. Yet I stayed for nearly 2 more years.
After I left school, I contacted a person who is still in -- 3 different times via email and letter over a 6-month period. I can't confirm that she got the correspondence, but I'm 99% sure that my contact info was correct.
I never heard from her, and I'm quite certain she is still in. And she's not a very happy person - you could see her skepticism even back then. But no, she's decided to stay for now.
So we don't know what are efforts will bear, but I do agree it is worth the effort. Maybe my former cult-mate will waver and wonder and recall my letter, and THAT will be the weight that helps her go.
I can only pray.
The person whom I recruited is no longer in school, from what I can gather from a couple of escapees, who don't remember him. :)
I am guessing that he left a while ago.
Hey Everyone, I want to again thank you so much for your insightful comments. Chapter 2 is near completion. I hope to post it within the next couple of days. Let's keep the conversation going!
To I-Will-Thrive,
I agree with your assessment. Misery is only part of the "leaving" equation. I was miserable for long periods at the end of my time in "school," and also unbudge-able.
In the years before I left, a number of people already out contacted me. After one really bad stretch, I called back one of them, and we met for coffee, but I changed my mind and recommitted to "school."
About two years later, I left. Since then, I've contacted several individuals still in, with no visible results. I have hopes for them, though.
I'm glad, also, not to have been "successful" at recruiting. I hated the whole weird hypocritical, misleading thing. I often made up people who I got to a third meeting who then "revealed" a brother in the CIA or some such impediment.
Not groucho, glad your person left. I just know that many people who left when I did, who were extremely successful at recruiting, and whose "friends" have now been in for over 20 years, never seemed to feel that moral nudging that they owed at least an effort.
To Ajax et al - yeah, you never know when a person will be ready to go. ultimately there has to be somethign inside them that wants to go, often it's deeply buried, denied. You never know - your calls, even though unreturned, may yet help that person leave. A negative encounter with someone from school out on the street may, similarly, be the catalyst that gets them to stop seeing through the glass darkly.
I have to admit that most of my "recruitment" efforts were half hearted at best, but I wasn't as cleverly insincere as, you, epona. I wish I would have been.
[What a shame, he seemed perfect for school, but then it turns out his brother is in the CIA.] ;-)
I felt so badly about the one person I did bring in that I couldn't rest until he was out and now his efforts have broken out another 12 people... so maybe the entire purpose of his and my school tenure was to help the great escape along.
This may be besides the point, though. I do think that someone really does have to be ready to see that s/he has been duped. It's a painful thing to look at.
This is good
http://bostonschoolosg.blogspot.com/2011/03/odyssey-study-group.html
WARNING TO ALL OLDER STUDENTS IN BOSTON and NEW YORK.
You are the ones who carry the weight of school, while all the money goes to Sharon.
You’re the ones doing the recruiting: setting aims for how many conversations you’ll have with strangers every week, how many people will be on your list, how many 3rd meetings you’ll have this week, how many interviews you’ll have in any given aim period.
You’re the ones doing the sustaining: you call or meet with your sustainees twice a week, asking all the right questions, checking up on them to be sure all the rules are followed, reporting in on them to the head of sustaining, and to your teachers.
You’re the most active students in the Christmas party preparation – You’re in an acting presentation or the choir, or band. You lead Decorations, or Set Up, or Cooking. You get so physically run down every year, you’re always sick when the holidays roll around.
You’re the Team Captains for recruiting, the Younger teachers, the ones who give the lectures. You almost always make your aims. You’re praised by your teachers. You are loyal, true and steadfast in your devotion to “school”.
BE FORWARNED. YOU’RE WASTING YOUR TIME.
The mass exodus of younger students will happen again, and again. It will be a recurring event. It will happen in New York, and it will happen in Boston. All your efforts will be for naught when the new students walk out that door.
I estimated that 40,000 hours of effort over 2 years went into attracting and retaining the 13 students that left the Boston younger group last month. There were endless hours of striking up conversations with strangers, 1st meetings, 3rd meetings, interviews, sustaining meetings, recruiting meetings, notes, bios, lectures researched, written and rewritten, rehearsed, etc, etc.
You provided all this free labor on top of all the tuition and fees you pay. You poured your heart and soul into making your aims and achieving results. And in the end, these new students walked out the door.
Don’t do it all over again. The new students may come, but they will inevitably leave. This will be a recurring event. The newer students can sense that “school” is incredibly corrupt. They haven’t become as entrenched in the group as most of you have. They can still think for themselves. They see that the rules of school are bull, and are strong enough to break them. You, on the other hand, are under the spell of your teachers. You are brainwashed. You no longer are able to think and feel for yourselves.
Continued …..
…..Continued
Perhaps you can’t break away from “school” right now; you still feel you’re getting something from it. Leaving “school” is a hard decision to make after investing 20 or 30 years in it. You can still go to classes twice a week, but don’t neglect your children!
I strongly encourage you to take the time you would spend recruiting, sustaining and writing lectures and instead spend it at home with your children.
Your children need you; they need to feel your loving presence. They need you to love and nurture them, which involves spending time with them. You’re so busy with classes, meetings, reading assignments, calls, and lectures that you don’t have time for them. It’s time to shift the focus away from school activities and pay more attention to your children. When you’re 80 years old and sitting in that proverbial rocking chair, you’ll look back and not regret doing this, I promise.
Reread the Jan 2012 posts of Mantequilla and SF Student on the DOSSIER: GRAVES KIELY - thread. There are devastating emotional consequences to neglecting your children. Don’t do it! You would never neglect your children intentionally, don’t do it unintentionally, and certainly don’t do it as a result of your hypnotism by Sharon and Robert.
Some Excerpts:
Mantequilla wrote:
“When I found out about the cult the following years were filled with debilitating panic attacks, depression and anger (just to name a few). My whole world was crumbled around me. If my mother hadn't been there to support me, I hate to think where I would be. The topic is so complex and miserable that it hurts to think about. ”
Originally Posted by SF Student on 1/17/12
“Dear Mantequilla,
I am the mother of a 28 year old - I will use the name Phoenix, because my child is working very hard to recreate the self after burning (in a sense). I was in "school" for about 20 years, out now for 15 - came with the SF migration to Boston.
Phoenix is right now going through very intensive therapy, a good deal of which is related to feelings of abandonment in the formative years. After the age of 10, Phoenix had my full attention, but before that, much of my time was horribly taken with "school" projects and demands, in all of which "school" cared not a fig about how we could balance parenthood with the demands. The saving grace is that Phoenix knows I am now very there for them. So I can feel the pain of having been a child of a parent trapped in this cult. It is only in the past few days that Phoenix has revealed to me the extent of the damage.
My advice to anyone in the ganscult who has kids is RUN DON'T WALK TO THE NEAREST EXIT. You are doing more damage to your kids than you are doing to yourself, which is already plenty. If you have kids and have gotten out, pay them close attention, support them, help them to undo the damage. I'd be happy to dialog more on this.”
Listen to what these two individuals have to say, there are significant and deep consequences to making the Aims of “school” the central focus of your life. Now is the time to rethink your priorities.
May the clear light within you guide your way home.
This is in response to what River of Joy said to the current recruiters and sustainers.
I left the group shortly after the 5 week intro period. There were many tipoffs that something was the matter. One was the insistence on lying and secrecy (which I did not honor-- I told all my friends that I thought that this group might be a cult and please keep an eye on me). Another was one of the recruiters seemed so anxious all the time. I didn't think a high level of anxiety spoke well for someone who had been in the group for at least 8 years. Another: I was really surprised at the arrogance of both Robert and Paul. Arrogance is not an attribute of an enlightened, aware person. Finally, my sustainer just looked exhausted, just shuffled along, every time we met. Robert kept insisting that people in the group functioned at an exceptionally high level, but this person clearly was not. If people ask themselves, is what they're telling me I'm seeing what I'm actually seeing? they're realize, no, it sure doesn't seem that way.
The recruiters and sustainers can lie, or withhold the truth as much as they want, but they can't hide their exhaustion or anxiety. People will pick up on it.
I never witnessed Christmas preparations but I feel sorry for everyone who spends so much time on the cult rather than celebrating with their own family. Those are family memories they're not creating, and won't have to look back on.
Congratulations to everyone who left. You will find everything you need to advance spiritually out here in the world. Your lives are designed to bring you the experiences you need to grow. I promise.
This is great to hear. I left about 3 years ago from the Tue/Thur NY branch. My last Christmas class was Dec 2008 and held above a church on 86th street. The "highlight" of that night was the inclusion of the younger NY group. This was a reward for all the work done on recruiting (isn't it fecking refreshing to say recruiting instead of 3rd line?)
I bring this up because though the there had been a large exodus over several years, they seemed to be filling up the younger group at a decent clip. Are rumors of the Gans Org. demise exaggerated? Any more recent news of NY?
Continued...
One more thing regarding the Boston "exodus"...I am utterly flabbergasted that the Gans Org now teaches out of a "Black Book.". When I left school I made contact with former friends and I heard of this but I guess deep down I didn't quite believe they'd go so far as to erase Gurdjieff et al. from their "teaching."
No, they are no longer teaching out of the "Black Book". They now do not have ANY reading material AT ALL for the newest students. They are too afraid that work books or any mention of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky can be too easily traced on the internet to some of the websites that might be, shall we say "unfavorable" to the CULT.
Anyone who has left school recently should contact EVERY person they brought to school and everyone whose phone number they have and let them know what the real truth about the group is.
The more we get the message out, the more likely it will be that we can be heard by even the die hards who have drunk the Kool Aid. There is hope for everyone but we need to let them know we are out here waiting to help them. Everyone who is in prison needs a helping hand from the outside to gain their freedom.
Let us give them as many helping hands as we can!!
Rhylance:
Are you in touch with any of your friends who are out?? Please get in touch if you have not already done so!
Re: Anonymous Feb 8
Yes I've been in touch to varying degrees thank you.
Perhaps I didn't frame my question clearly: does any one have an idea of how strong or weak the organization currently is?
Ironically I used to judge myself for never bringing any one. I now thank god that my own deep discomfort prevented me from doing so!
Best to all.
To Rhylance,
I was kicked out of the NY Thursday group several years.
I don't generally contribute to this blog, but I do keep up with it as part of my keeping up with 'school'. Since Boston is having so much trouble and people want to know if the same is true for NY I thought I should chime in.
I can confirm that Ajax's report posted on January 25th for people leaving is accurate. It is copied below:
"I've made a list of those who've left the two "older" New York groups during the past four years. Here are the counts:
--Monday/Wednesday: 25 left "school", 2 added, and four transferred to the "uptown"* group. Net change: Minus 27.
--Tuesday/Thursday: 23 left "school", none added. Transferred: unknown. Net change: Minus 23." --end of post
Since leaving, myself and couple of others, have been able to maintain contact with many (but not all) members in both the Wednesday and Thursday groups here in NY.
According to those that are 'in' the overall morale is low. For example, the move from 25th Street to the 38th Street space over the summer of 2011 was disconcerting to most of them as it was not business as usual. Most people did not even know what was happening until it was over and done. A couple of older students told me that for the first time in their history of 'school' that 'school' actually paid for construction work to be done because the slave labor was at an all-time low.
There has not been a mass exodus in NY as in Boston. Only a few people here and there have left and as noted above there is a consistent decline happening. They are keeping the 'older' and 'younger' classes very separated. My guess is that the 'younger' classes will never meet the 'older' students because what they are studying and talking about is so very different. This fact would be difficult to explain to both groups. This is contributing to the low morale of the 'older' classes because they are doing quite a bit of recruiting work, as usual, but there is no one coming into their classes.
continued from above...
Since my own leaving I have been even more active about my recruiting efforts to get people 'in' to 'school' instead of dragging people 'out'. I have deepened my relationships to those that are still there. Many of the 'newer' students have actually been the work of a few of us here on the 'outside' to get them 'in'. We are able to gain up to date information and maintain tabs on the teachers and the content of what is being said in the classes. We are in touch with a few main recruiters there as well. It has been rather difficult to get a free pass for the new people to get in as we'd had hoped. It's working though, because we know exactly what they are looking for and we can help new recruits handle their questions and for them to ask the 'right' questions. Also, we needed to help some of the people on the 'inside' that are working with us to maintain their good standing by 'feeding' them some solid new recruits.
We are actually paying people to be in the classes in addition to paying their tuition, and it is surprisingly hard to keep them there and interested even under those conditions. Perhaps there is some truth to the old 'school' saying "that people pay for what they value and value what they pay for". Nonetheless they are 'good' students for as long as we can keep them there and very helpful to us.
If your experience of leaving is anything like mine, after a while you probably told a couple of your friends about the time in the cult. After they got over the initial disbelief, and after a few conversations some wanted to know what the experience was like first hand. So we said, what the hell? you want to go? - then go. We made it happen for them. You know, casually having them bump into an older student with a juicy prop/book giving them the opportunity to make contact and having them taking it from there.
Please understand that the people we are 'sending' in to the newer classes know exactly what they are getting into. If you have friends that are still in and don't know the facts they should by all means be brought up to speed as to where they actually are and what exactly is going on. It would be fine to error on the side of them not knowing. If you happen to contact one of people in contact with us it won't be a big deal. They are NOT there to educate the other students or promote this blog or any other site. They are there to educate us on what is going on "on the inside" - that is what we are paying them for.
Rhylance,
Recent events such as the Boston exodus and some events in New York, beginning last spring and we believe to be ongoing have put them into high-gear panic mode. They are interviewing current students, changing spaces and numbers, warning, increasing "security" - both for recruiting parameters and meeting locales. They are further revealing themselves through their suspicion and dirty dealings. they have students and teachers who were friends of people who left call and pretend they're doing it on their own and try to elicit information of contact with we evil renegades. I know they're finding it harder to recruit; they have to hide everything (like the G connection). The Gorgon at the Head, Her Unholiness, is deeply in to her seventies, a life long alcoholic, many years addicted to prescription opiates (still) - she must hold together from being so well pickled, but soon she'll probably experience some kind of system collapse in her body - who knows, heart attack, stroke, drown in the bath having swallowed too much codeine, liver, the cancer she periodically announces she has, perhaps gout inflames her delicate fat foot, crammed into her littul littul booties - whatever the agent, SNAP - when she's gone - Gorgon Gans, Hydra, medusa - It - the organization - will turn to stone.Robert's heart isn't really in it, and he's such a pussy. No one would follow Terry, chris?! HA! Mary, Lorain, Greg, Fred? Only fools and masochists will remain and many will find that the disappearance of Sharon breaks the spell, like the death of hitler broke the Germans to the reality of the concentration camps.
Oh - so, rhylnace and others -
the state of our union out here is strong - them, no, not so much. The tipping point is being reached. If Sharon were smart she would follow the old pattern, take her gold and go underground, retire with a handmaid or two to run her errands. They are NOT dead yet, not even mortally wounded, but they are definitely assaulted and feeling it - good, they will feel it even more - wherever they go, we'll find them. Every crime they commit we will do our utmost to redress - an eye for an eye, eh, bob? And when I say "we", I mean the freed community of victims, who are welcome to do what they want - as individuals, with their friends, no secrets, no restrictions. All of these efforts, and what they haven't realized is that MANY MANY PEOPLE ARE ACTING ON THEIR OWN TO BRING YOU DOWN. WE AREN'T THAT "INTO" GROUPS, BUT WE SURE AS HELL KNOW HOW TO WORK TOGETHER WHEN WE NEED TO.HEAR THAT, MAN?
I think these recent posts are great - very powerful. Thank you River of Joy, Rhylance, Deputy Steward and Sharon's Bane.
The way I see it, this blog serves two purposes:
1. Help those who want to get out - actually get out and for those who are out to have a place to express themselves and get the further help they need.
2. To give fair warning to those still in that the time will come when 'school' will come crashing down around them. This house of cards will not stand much longer.
In various ways you are being asked to leave by those that are going to take this organization down; aka your old friends. Now is your chance. From the sounds of these posts the gloves are not going to stay on much longer.
Do you want to be apart of what is to come?
You're not going to be able to say you didn't see it coming...if you're there when the house comes down that's you're responsibility.
ST,
Why the threatening tone? (talk of gloves coming off, etc. etc.). I personally feel that the people still in (aka, our old friends) deserve our compassion and a more friendly tone. After all, wasen't that us (it was me!) not so long ago? Why blame them? I think that a very aggressive approach to "bringing down school" will only hinder the overall desire to shed light on the truth of school and help our friends to become free. It has the potential backfire. It lends credibility to the whole "us against them" paranoia and if we really want to help our friends I think that a non-judgemental loving attitude will be most useful. I want to help those people more than I want to "hurt" school. I think a positive action (help as opposed to hurt) will be most effective.
to anonymous,
i understand your discomfort with the combative attitude some of us express. I also have old friends who are still in who I don't feel anger towards or betrayal by. At the same time, there are people - the 'inner circle', who cannot be blind to what they are doing to people, who must know inside that they are benefitting by lies and misleading. I know a number of them really seemed to enjoy being cruel to other students when they 'in charge' of a 'line of work'. In my mind, these people are accomplices and culpable. I had and have much knowledge of these behind the scenes interactions, first hand and really close second hand. "following orders" is a defense that denies human conscience, even if you think it's for your 'evolution'. How could treating people meanly and badly ever help another person grow? So, yes I feel sorry for many, no I don't feel sorry for: Paul, Kathleen, Una, Chris, Leeanne, mary, lorainne, greg, Joe, Lisa,fred, bob, minerva, terry, graves, janine - or others of the innermost circle. I knew some of these people when they were being broken - I feel bad, but they decided to become part of the problem in a very real way, so as is being said by ST and others - fair warning is being given. Did you really sign that contract, lease, agreement, tax form for them? did you really commit purgery, fraud, tax evasion for them thinking they wouldn't throw you under the bus? They will, as soon as it becomes convenient. And their 'conveniences' are dwindling.
Anonymous to ST,
Just chiming in here. Seems to me that ST’s comments were among the less aggressive of the day, which goes to show that everyone here is in his/her own phase of healing from their “school” experiences. I believe the commonly accepted stages of grief/loss (appropriate here) are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, in no particular order. Given the range of posts we see on this blog every single day, I don’t think it’s fair to say one person’s current comments are less or more appropriate than another person’s comments.
To your other point, regarding the overall desire to shed light on the truth of school and help our friends to become free, “shedding light” will cause our friends a fair amount of trauma, which likely will be seen by them as aggression (we all know this to be true… our reaction in their shoes would be denial, defensiveness, fight-or-flight, etc.).
The popular notion on this blog of bringing down the school may be first an act of kindness upon our friends, but second – and no less important – a low-level act of revenge upon those who began it who knowingly perpetuate it, and who profit well from it to the extreme detriment of their “students.” Plenty of reason for an aggressive tone on that second point.
You know, we are all entitled to our individual feelings. I'm sorry if I offended some of you (clearly I did) by expressing my discomfort with the "militant" or threatening tone I sometimes see on this blog. I'm just not that comfortable with it, that's all. That's me. I NEVER said that ST's comments were inappropriate, however! I would never say something like that. Who am I to deem someone's comments as inappropriate! Are you saying this to me? Am I not permitted my own point of view here, if it differs from yours? We are all in the process of healing, and yes, the anger stage is a very important one. I've been there and in many ways still am. But I also really want to move on with my life, so I don't want to remain stuck in the anger phase. In the end for me (again, speaking PERSONALLY and NOT claiming that others' experiences or comments are somehow invalid or "inappropriate") I have to do my best to speak the truth as I know it and also trust in karma. These people WILL eventually reap what they sow. I am happy to help that process along the way too, but I really don't feel comfortable with "wishing harm" to anyone there, even the teachers (they are in a hell of their own making, after all). Maybe I will get there, but I'm just saying, I'm not comfortable with this. I want to stop them from harming others. I want to stop them period. But that is different from wishing harm. I am absolutely in agreement that those in the inner circle are in a position of knowing what's really going on and are responsible for this knowledge. I've many times been victim of their meanness, as well as that of other "older" students who had a little power to abuse at times. It's simply awful and reprehensible and there's no excuse, certainly not the old "following orders" one! In my original post I was speaking more on behalf of the students who are there but not in power. That was me several years ago and I know that reading this blog did help me, but I had to come to a place of openness (and disenchantment) first. Had I read the blog and seen lots of threatening posts warning students of "retribution", I don't know if it would have been helpful. It may have awakened a protective instinct and that would have been a disaster (for me).... I'm afraid I may have just thought that they (the teachers) were right about the bad people out there who are trying to bring down school. I was trying to discuss it from that point of view. Again, ST, your comments are certainly VERY appropriate and I'm sorry if you (or others) feel I deemed them somehow innappropriate. I merely wanted to voice my own opinion and feelings about the matter in hopes of helping those still in. I believe in freedom of speach. Especially here, under these circumstances.
Thank you LetsHopeandPray,
For the record, I did not take offense to your post. I agree that it's always good to see as much of both sides as possible even when you don't want to or can't for whatever reason. In this particular case it was rather one sided.
Don't you have flashes of anger and rage after realizing that you were duped and lied to for so many years? I do.
Let's call a spade a spade. They violated our souls. For most people this went on for a very long time. If this was sex, it would be called rape - plain and simple. They have raped our souls, and yes that makes me angry. Very angry!
We are free now. The rape, for us, has ended. And most days I revel in the sweet air of freedom. On other days my raped soul wants to unleash a furry of hell on them to likes that they've never seen or even heard of - especially when I see others on the attack, and when I think of other people still in 'school' being raped every day.
I too, truly want to move on and don't want to be stuck in anger - knowing that there are voices of reason out there is reassuring to me and I'm sure to others and for that I thank you. If we were all a bunch of angry irrational people it would not be helpful to anyone.
That said, as mentioned above, I don't consider those who lied and raped all of us to be my friends in the least. And if people want to take them down (in whatever way they seem fit) then so be it.
You are right in that all of the others (just like we were) in the groups are not to blame and they shouldn't be lumped into the nasty gang of soul rapists.
I wish those people the best and hope that they can come to their own reasoning of the situation and start thinking for themselves as soon as possible.
I wish them a speedy and peaceful exit. I think we can all agree that this has gone on long enough.
To LetsHopeandPray (from Anonymous re: ST’s comments),
No, I wasn’t implying that you didn’t have a right to express yourself - I love this forum and the fact that everyone expresses themselves freely.
There may be an innate conflict between the two missions of this site: 1) working together to heal from our experiences (in whatever form that takes), and 2) providing a “safe harbor” for any who are still in school but wanting to learn the truth. Our group therapy in strings like the above could at times make this harbor seem shark-infested (which is neither the intent nor the reality).
To readers who are still in school: I don’t expect you to empathize with the range of feelings you see expressed here, but I hope you will at least grasp the diversity of personalities you’ll find here and realize that if you choose to communicate, someone who has been in your shoes will respond and try to help you find your way.
To LetsHopeandPray (from Anonymous re: ST’s comments),
No, I wasn’t implying that you didn’t have a right to express yourself, just trying to clarify your meaning in your note to ST. I love this forum and the fact that everyone expresses themselves freely.
I think there’s a natural conflict between the two missions of this site: 1) working together to heal from our experiences, and 2) providing a “safe harbor” for any who are still in school but wanting to learn the truth. Our group therapy in strings like the above could at times make this harbor seem shark-infested.
To readers who are still in school: I don’t expect you to instantly empathize with the range of feelings you see expressed here, but I hope you will at least grasp the diversity of personalities you’ll find here and realize that if you choose to communicate, someone who has been in your shoes will respond and try to help you find your way.
Yes, I agree, there is a natural conflict in the dual missions here.
I certainly do have a great deal of anger as well. I don't really want to get into the details of my school story here, but it's a terrible one and the damage done is concrete and devastasting in a way that is pretty shocking. In this process right now (and that could change) my anger is becoming mostly directed towards my parents and those in my early life whose neglect and emotional abuse left me in a very prime place for recruitement into school. Were it not for the messages I received early on that something was fundamentally wrong with me, mixed in with very "Sharon-like" sudden doses of approval and "love" that kept me deeply confused, I am convinced I would never have stayed and gotten so hooked. I believed every shitty thing they told me about myself because it was a perfect echo to my childhood and warped self image. I'm somehow more angry about the fact that the people who were supposed to love me and help prepare me to deal with the challenges of this world were so selfish and cruel that I ended up with a perfect psyche for the spiritual rape of school. I know many/most of us have similar stories.
Dear LetsHopeandPray,
My heart goes out to you. I'm very sorry that you had such a terrible experience while you were there, it makes me very sad.
I really don't know what to say other than that I will pray for your recovery. I found this post by Ajax to be very helpful to me and worth reposting. It’s certainly one way to view how we all ended up here in the first place:
-“I thought to reprint the following excerpt from, of all places, the "FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin" (dated September 1, 2000), which was written as an advisory to help law enforcement individual interact with cults in a "more mature, conciliatory and less confrontational" way. The article goes so far as to eschew the use of the admittedly-charged word "cult" in favor of the more clinical "NRM" ("new religious movement"):
"Misconceptions about brainwashing may persist because it is difficult to understand the attraction of the intensely demanding NRM lifestyle. Many people think that sane individuals never would join such a group unless they were coerced physically or mentally. People overlook, however, the enormous social and psychological rewards that NRMs can offer. Converts to NRMs may receive a sense of purpose, a moral compass, a highly structured guide for their daily behavior, and a strong sense of social identity and belonging.' In this respect, NRMs often seem more attractive to prospective converts than established churches, which sometimes appear to have lost their dramatic sense of revelation and urgency.
For individuals who feel unfulfilled by existing outlets in their lives, spiritually adrift, or merely lonely, joining an NRM may provide a successful solution, at least temporarily. To put NRMs into context, the same individuals who join these groups might just as easily find happiness in such secular, high-intensity movements as the armed forces or the Peace Corps."-
I actually had a rather positive experience while in school. I think mostly to the demanding life style and the challenges it brought. Obviously, not all positive, but I would say that for the most part it was. I was hurt more by the actions that were taken on some of my friends in class and after years of it, it began to wear away at me. I had to go.
What angers me are the lies that we were told. That in fact, this was a real school - an ancient school, which was passed down from generation to generation. I like many gave it my all. I and I think most people in class felt that they'd finally found what they were looking for in life. Maybe we had found what we were looking for, for awhile that is, but the tone of the classes certainly changed.
After having left I've heard of so many people, like yourself, that were so terribly hurt by school. Families have been broken and hurt, their money lost etc etc and it is beyond me how much of this was going on all around us and without anyone knowing about it.
This is clearly the work of 'black magic'. See post below...
What follows is an excerpt taken from page 227 of In Search of the Miraculous by P.D. Ouspensky.
Here Ouspensky is quoting Gurdjieff’s answer to what is ‘black magic’?
“What can be called black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.
“But it must be remembered in this connection that a ‘black magician,’ whether good or evil, has at all events been at a school. He has learned something, has heard something, knows something. He is simply a ‘half-educated man’ who has either been turned out of a school or who has himself left a school having decided that he already knows enough, that he does not want to be in subordination any longer, and that he can work independently and even direct the work of others. All ‘work’ of this kind can produce only subjective results, that is to say, it can only increase deception and increase sleep instead of decreasing them. Nevertheless something can be learned from a ‘black magician’ although in the wrong way. He can sometimes by accident even tell the truth. That is why I say that there are many things worse than ‘black magic.’ Such are various ‘occult’ and theosophical societies and groups. Not only have their teachers never been at a school but they have never even met anyone who has been near a school. Their work simply consists in aping. But imitation work of this kind gives a great deal of self-satisfaction. One man feels himself to be a ‘teacher,’ others feel that they are ‘pupils,’ and everyone is satisfied. No realization of one’s nothingness can be got here and if people affirm that they have it, it is all illusion and self-deception, if not plain deceit. On the contrary, instead of realizing their own nothingness the members of such circles acquire a realization of their own importance and a growth of false personality.”
In my opinion this is a clear description of Sharon Gans, the ‘teachers’ of the ‘school’ and us as ‘pupils’.
Dear ST
I wonder if Sharon and any of the other "teachers" even rise to the level of "black magicians." Have they "in any event been in a school?"
I think they fit in the second half of your apt quote:
"That is why I say that there are many things worse than ‘black magic.’ Such are various ‘occult’ and theosophical societies and groups. Not only have their teachers never been at a school but they have never even met anyone who has been near a school. Their work simply consists in aping. But imitation work of this kind gives a great deal of self-satisfaction. One man feels himself to be a ‘teacher,’ others feel that they are ‘pupils,’ and everyone is satisfied. No realization of one’s nothingness can be got here and if people affirm that they have it, it is all illusion and self-deception, if not plain deceit. On the contrary, instead of realizing their own nothingness the members of such circles acquire a realization of their own importance and a growth of false personality.”
Ganscult seems to me a total sham, and not even rising to the level of "black magician."
As a side note, reading this quote reminds me how I loved reading the "work" books. Much of what attracted me at the time (over 35 yrs ago)were the ideas, including puzzling over G's quirky writing, O's talks with the devil and regular work on Nicoll's Commentaries. I still love ideas, but now I study different ideas out of love of learning, not fear. I am blown away by the fact that the "work" books are now censored.
more on next post....
...continued...
This is not to say that it was all a lovely study of ideas. I again beg anyone in ganscult who has children to leave immediately, and anyone who has recently left and has children to give them your full and long term attention. It gives me a chill to remember how my children were neglected for class and "third line of work."
I admire and support everyone who is making the inner struggle to leave, and who is doing the hard work of healing and who is sharing their journey. I was kicked out several times, to my great good fortune, until there was just no way to go back; I don't think I ever wrestled with the idea of leaving.
SFstudent,
I stand corrected, you are right - Sharon and the others are NOT practicing 'black magic' according to this definition since they have been nowhere near a school.
It seems that only Alex's first wife may have met someone that was in a school. http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/rosie.htm
You point out (as stated in the quote), that what they are doing is in fact, WORSE than 'black magic'.
I wish Ouspensky would have gone into more detail as to why it is actually worse than 'black magic'. I think, possibly, that this blog and most of our experiences are evidence of why it is worse though. If that is the case, we all have a lot of material of the effects from someone that knows absolutely nothing - that can't "sometimes by accident even tell the truth" - and to have such large influence over so many people's lives.
Also, I feel that things were done in 'school' "without our knowledge and understanding, either by producing in us faith and infatuation or by acting upon us through fear."
Would you agree? Is this an exaggeration? How does this fit in to this discussion or does it at all?
Everyone's experiences are different and I welcome anyone's thoughts on this – especially if I’m out of line. I don’t think that everything was done in this way, but there were certain ‘lines of work’ that I had no idea why we were really doing it until later and sometimes I didn’t know at all. To be fair these ‘lines of work’ were harmless but it’s unnerving to think that I, and others, were under such influence to not question anything and to work so hard at it whatever was asked of us without our full knowledge. I dare say that we would have done almost anything asked of us. This was why I turned toward the ‘black magic’ in the first place, but I didn’t make the clear distinction between a ‘black magician’ and someone who knows absolutely nothing. So, thank you for your post it is very helpful.
ST,
Glad I re-read this thread. The line you highlighted about black magic -- "without their knowledge or understanding" -- jumped right out at me this time.
That really is it, and yes, it is criminal, and it is spiritual rape.
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