Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek.
Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Sharon Gans
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44 comments:
I have come to feel in recent weeks that some people who were not in the group for a long time or who may have left many years ago could be potentially hurt by a torrential outpouring of bile and hate from “older” students and people who were severely hurt by Sharon and her minions.
People who have just left school or those who are finding out about the truth of school after having been out for many years can be in a very FRAGILE emotional state.
It may not be healing for them to come under the influence of and hear the stories of those who were personally seriously violated. The outpouring of intense indiscriminate anger by people who were seriously damaged might be more than they can cope with and could have harmful effects.
Everyone needs a period to become adjusted to the truth of the situation and going too fast or revealing too much immediately could be potentially confusing and frightening to many people. Try and remember what kind of a place you were in when you first left and maybe that could inform how you treat others.
I think it is helpful to remember that we all have issues that way predate our being in the cult and that the cult did not help us solve our problems but in fact frequently made those things worse. For many, there is an intense level of anger about where they are in themselves and this may not be something healthy for other people to be exposed to, ESPECIALLY when they first leave and are in a tender and fragile place. We learn, as we go through this process of healing, to sympathize with all folks who have shared this experience, but this is not where we start from when we first leave school.
I just hope we can all find the place in ourselves where we can be gentle and loving to one another because that is what we all need - whether or not we were in school.
A few quotes from the Dalai Lama:
"All major religious traditions carry basically the same message, that is love, compassion and forgiveness. The important thing is they should be part of our daily lives."
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."
"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them."
Each of us has our own understanding of our experience - this is helping me understand different points of view -
The lamp and the wick change
but the light's the same
See the light within the flame
Some Hindus brought an elephant to exhibit
The kept it in a dark house
People went in and out
They couldn't see anything,
they felt with their hands
One person touched the trunk -
"it's like a downspout"
One, an ear, "more like a fan"
One, the leg, "I find it round
and solid like the column on a temple"
One touches the back - "an enormous throne"
One says "straight", another "crooked"
If each had a candle and they went in together
The differences would disappear
The lamp and the wick change
but the light's the same
See the light within the flame
It is limited in it's perception
Jalaludin Rumi
Translated by: Coleman Barks
From: The Essential Rumi, 1985, Copyright Coleman Barks
This is a very useful observation, Oh Grasshopper. When I first left a number of years ago, others were out. We made effforts to be together, to heal together, to combat sharon's criminal evil. But people's sense of betrayal, desolation, anger, loss of trust, sense of loss - all came out in different ways, depending on their separate selves. Some people contrived a huge revilement of anyone who had shared their experience. Others cut off because they chose to move forward, not look back, others achieved friendships, sometimes deep and sometimes acquaintance and good will - and often in distance but vague good will because, ya know, you just don't like each other or care to be friends. So good luck, and god speed. sharing a traumatic experience doesn't mean you must give support or anything more than an individual wishes - anything else would be reproducing the tactics of the group - forced sharing, intimacy, fake friendships, fake ideas hypocritically implemented, only this time from good intentions. But it has been proved, from watching many come out in Boston and NY - that as each person is entitled to their path in healing, so people are entirely entitled to remove themselves form sharing or contact, and to force oneself on them would be further violence.
The issues you raise come down to this - do no violence - but judge violence by how it is perceived by the other, not by you. Don't take wish to be out of contact personally - no one is obligated to be friends with you, nor you with others. Go placidly amid the noise and haste. Live in rooms full of light. Laugh often.
Thank you, Ghostdog -- one of the best posts on this subject. You're right, we shared an experience. Who says we now have to like each other?
My own path of healing has led me to seek out contact with more than 70 people who've left, all during the past year. Some don't respond, some make it clear -- "thank you, but no thank you" -- that those days are over for them, and they don't want to revisit them in any way.
As a casual observer, I have recently seen a number of “secret groups” of varying persuasions that have evolved out of all of this. I’m sorry to see that the “discussion” that we have been having in public has now become private and I am sorry that everyone is not included.
It feels to me that many people who were formerly in Sharon and Robert’s “group” are now going underground into their own little private groups just like Sharon. I think that if all the energy is going into the secret stuff, it's going to dilute the impact of the public information, to healing ourselves, to getting on with our lives and that's not a step in the right direction...
It also brings up one of the same issues that was a problem when I was in “school.” There was the “Inner Circle” and then there was the rest of us. I always felt that “school” was set up in such a way that everyone yearned (and plotted and planned) to get into the inner group. That became everyone’s aim in a way. Why were certain people in the “in group” and others were not? Probably for the same reason that Sharon did everything – power and manipulation with a dose of whim thrown in.
I thought many things about that: What made those people “better” than me? Why were they more “evolved” than I was? What secrets did they know by being in the in crowd that were kept from the rest of us mere mortals? For years I wanted to be in the “special group” and go to Montana.
When I finally got to be in the “Inner Circle” it was intensely anti-climactic. I was way past wanting to spend more time and money to go to Montana. I was not interested in spending MORE time being cozy with Sharon and Robert. I did not want to lead lines of work. I wanted out of the group altogether but wasn’t able to leave for quite awhile after that. And the people in the “inner circle” were actually NO DIFFERENT from me! And they didn’t know any more than I did, etc.
My sense is that even after leaving school and being out for awhile, there are people who are still angry (and jealous) that they were never made “teachers” and/or never invited into the inner circle, never given responsibility and power in school (only to be able to manipulate others as they had been manipulated.)
And many of us come out of “school” and miss the sense of power, if we had it while we were in there, or miss being the group leader or the teacher or (going into the future) the one who will finally bring them all down to the bottom of the sea.
So, I have to ask the question, why have I been asked to join these private groups and not others? Again, am I better or more evolved than anyone else? The reason is simple. If I am in a private group, I am not anonymous. You can’t have it both ways…
This article, from the Gurdjieff Journal, has been around a long time. It is still interesting to me in that it goes to pains to clarify that Horn, Gans and the rest of them have no authentic connection to a lineage of Gurdjieff teaching. The article calls the Horn/Gans/Klein group a "faux Fourth Way" group.
As many know, the vulnerability of the Gans group in the face of these charges has driven them to great lengths. During the recent five years, the group has systematically stopped using recognized Gurdjeiff & Ouspensky texts, has scrubbed those still used of all references to Fourth Way, G, and O, and has discouraged the citation of teachers such as Nicoll and Collin in class discussions.
What will be the next "costume change"?
http://www.gurdjieff-legacy.org/40articles/rosie.htm
It never hurts to go back to basics:
Here is the page from RickRoss's site about the Gans group. It is dated 2002, but still relevant in every detail, because the DNA of this group was set long ago.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/theater/theater13.html
I haven't looked at Rick Ross in a long time. Thank you Don Raskopf for reminding me of this valuable resource.
You can follow discussions on Rick Ross and they will automatically send you an email when someone comments on something you are following.
It is a great resource.
Joy Arising,
Thank you for your 12/18 5:21 pm post. I have to admit though, that I don’t quite understand what it is that you are saying. As I read it, you start by expressing concern about the private groups which you have been invited to join, and the motivations behind them. Then you conclude by giving what I think is a very valid reason for these private groups. I am also completely baffled about your final statement “You can’t have it both ways...” It is entirely possible that others understand your post completely and that I am being dense. If so, please help me to understand.
I still actively post here, as I am sure you know. Part of my healing process is to do what little I can to help others heal, in my faltering way. I do my best to make sure that when I post, that I am coming from a place of honesty and compassion for all those who have shared my experiences and are still hurting.
Technically, my posts here are anonymous. But I have also given enough personal detail that those who know me from our shared experiences should have no difficulty in recognizing me. This includes our former “teachers” if they should happen to read this blog. I don’t care about the “teachers", but I want the friends I left behind to know that I am out here, waiting to welcome them. However, there are things that I will not post here because I do not want those so-called “teachers” to read them.
And that is what I see as the purpose of the private groups. It is not about regaining a sense of power. It is about talking about private things in private, knowing to whom I am speaking. There are things which can and should be said on this public blog. There are also things which do not belong here.
I don’t know whether any of my fellow former students are angry about never being admitted to the inner circle. I can only speak for myself. And I can say for myself with complete certainty that I am grateful that I never qualified for the inner circle. I would not want to have on my conscience the things I would likely have done in that case. There’s plenty on my conscience without that.
Samwise Gamgee
Joy Arising,
I am wondering to what purpose you are complaining here about these "secret groups"? Not having known anything about them (but perhaps suspecting on a few occasions when I've had the pleasure of seeing old friends..), I now have - once again - the lovely feeling of being excluded from some wonderful group for which I'm obviously for some unknown reason not deemed to be good enough.... Sorry, I'm a bit raw today, but really... Did you not think about how this discussion might make some of us, those who've not been invited to participate, feel?
I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to further and more deeply process my experiences and the ideas from school with individuals who could ACTUALLY understand where I'm coming from. I am not offended in the least by people getting together in private. It's certainly our perrogative.
But if these are truly "secret" and exclusive groups which by their very nature are not open or welcoming to those who might wish to explore them, well then, I find that pretty creepy. As you say, it's most likely an effort to continue some form of an exclusivity/power trip and I would not be interested in such a group at all!!!!
But I must say, I now wish I'd never read your post. I'm sure you didn't mean for it to be hurtful, yet it is to me.
I think that whole thing of being left out of the inner circle and striving to be a considered worthy of the work and Sharon's attention was such a deep hook for me. A really sick attraction that was fed by my own low sense of self worth.
Today I find myself pretty much alone and struggling onward with these issues with very little support. I feel I've made progress and, Lord knows, I am very happy to be out. But it is hard and lonely for me. It is good to know these things my slavery to school has shown me about myself and to be aware of how vulnerable I am to this kind of "exclusivity" manipulation. Perhaps because of this any sort of group is not for me, actually. I err on the side of caution now, even avoiding formal Yoga training and women's groups I've been invited to but eventually it will be important for me to rejoin some sort of community I think...
I know you wanted to open a discussion about something that is important to you and I am sure you meant no harm, but I really wish I'd not read your post...
Wishing you all Peace and sweetness for Hannukah and Christmas. The light does always find a way...
I think you can only measure something someone else says against your own experience. In other words, if the shoe fits, wear it and if not then it's just not your shoe.
Now, here is something that Sharon would put in the category of the "spiritual supermarket" but having been out of the store for so many years, I am having fun shopping!
This is my edited list. Some of my current favorites. For the full list go to:
http://www.finerminds.com/happiness/50-life-lessons/
1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.
3. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone.
4. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does
.
10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.
13. Don't compare your life to others'. You have no idea what their journey is all about.
14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.
16. Life is too short for long pity parties. Get busy living, or get busy dying.
25. No one is in charge of your happiness except you.
27. Always choose life.
28. Forgive everyone everything.
29. What other people think of you is none of your business.
42. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.
44. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need.
50. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift..
LetsHopeandPray -
I am so sorry. I think that just what happened was what I was hoping to avoid by posting what I did. But obviously, I didn't think it through all the way. Many apologies. I really did not mean any harm.
I find the groups creepy as well and that was what I wanted to get across.
I too was very drawn in by wanting to climb up to the top as you aptly put it by "striving to be considered worthy of the work and Sharon's attention." Obviously not everyone felt that way but I do think that many of us did.
I think that having friends to talk to about all of this is important. I hope that you are able to be connected to some of the people you knew in school who you can talk to. What I object to about the groups is not the communication between people but that it is impersonal communication and that anyone can talk about anyone which brings the whole thing down to hearsay and gossip.
I am sincerely sorry. And you are right the light does find a way.
I don't know what all is being said or revealed on these so-called secret facebook groups (yeah, they can be easily hacked, copied, what have you. And because FB is not anonymous, no one should be violating anyone's privacy by "outting" them in some way - from what I pick up, it seems like that may be happening.
To those of you indiscrimiately posting,if you are truly being compassionate and sensitive and whatever, you won't ever violate a victim's privacy - either by outting or by pursuing them. The psychological damage you may be causing could be horrendous. I totally get Joy's description of wanting to be in the "in" group. I don't think anyone who spent more than a year in school avoided experiencing it - and it's a natural part of the human persona that cults exploit, one of the major Lifton tenets - you get to be part of something special and secret and unrepeatable (thank god for that). I think it's wise, as associations are formed and feelings are shared, to keep that always in the forefront - one way they got you was to make you think it was all so very special (but then, they also told us everything is the exact opposite of what it seems.
I don't think any of the people looking for connection outside of the cult of Robert Klein and Sharon Gans is a creepy thing. I think it is courageous and empowering. I wish I figured out a long time ago that this trompe l'oeil "school" is a cult where the primary reason-to-be is to create revenue streams for Sharon Gans.
I have connected with a few people and don't feel like anyone is trying to be exclusive, although we all have our issues. If you want to connect, then do. But if you are sitting around waiting to be invited to some "in" or "secret" group, you will be waiting for a long time, because there is no such thing.
I have posted here, but don't share everything, because my life is private and will remain so. I don't want to share all my experiences (nor do I have the time or inclination to do so) on a blog.
I am grateful to all the people who have extended a hand in friendship, and I am also mindful of boundaries--my own and those of other escapees.
Joy Arising,
Thank you for your kinds words, and apology accepted. I think I over-reacted, but it was useful in terms of seeing how much that thing of "being left out" still has a hold over my psyche...
Also a good reminder that I do need to reach out to old friends from school - it is somehow still important, for me, on this journey.
LetsHopeandPray,
I've had the good fortune to have connected with more than 60 former Gans group members in the past 12 months, and their stories and perspective have been an invaluable part of my own healing.
If you are interested, there are some additional resources out there, specifically for ex-Gans group members. Please contact me at Ajax Son of Telemon (ajaxsonoftelemon@safe-mail.net) and I'll explain them to you. If you wish to preserve your own anonymity, you can set up a safe-mail.net email account very easily; safe-mail uses encryption that blocks your IP address from being traced.
Hi folks,
Cher_Tea here. I think I have been posting on a different thread on this blogsite. Can I assume that if I post on the esotericfreedom Blog anywhere that most people can/do read/check it out? Otherwise, this thread here seems to be most recent.
And I apologize here because it seems that you all are talking about very sensitive and private experiences and here I come along... Like when I am teaching in class and bring up an important point only to have a student raise his/her hand and say, "May I go to the restroom?" Oh, ok.
At any rate let me at least say that I am so impressed with the intelligent, compassionate and decent way in which you discuss your...how shall I call it...your conscription together in your group. I am still struggling myself with my former Gurdjieff group and I've been "out" now for over 20 years. The hooks were deep and the Kool-aid was strong.
Our leader (former), Cesareo Pelaez, used to say, "People say it is hard to leave. No, it is easy to leave!" He was wrong. It was very hard to leave. It took me 2 years. Even today, 22 years later, I still occasionally find myself making coffee early in the morning, looking out into my back yard, knowing my sons are safely asleep in their beds, my wife still snugly tucked in...and thinking, "Boy, am I glad I'm not part of that group anymore!"
I am becoming more and more convinced that I need to start a blog for my own former group. People need to talk. I am glad you all talk to each other in a respectful way. It gives me encouragement. Thank you. If I am intruding, please forgive me. Take care.
Cher_Tea
I am new to this and wonder what the secret groups are? What is creepy about them?
Hi Cher_Tea and Everybody,
Since connecting and sharing is always healing and clarifying, my husband Sam has been researching different forums for group discussion that might work on our website, A little Survivor's Handbook (in progress), dedicated to victims of violence and hidden cruelty.
Meanwhile, Happy New Year - and feel free to write libertybelle or samsters at toknow dot us)!
xoxo
Jo
A special note of appreciation and gratitude for a courageous friend and freedom fighter who designed this lighthouse and many other sites, reflecting the Six Principles of Life: Truth, Beauty and Goodness, Faith, Hope and Love.
Thank you, Ashiata, for creating a place where we can all give Gans and Klein a technical knockout (TKO), rough time and run for their money, piece of our mind and kick in the behind!
With love and best wishes in the New Year, waves and winds of change...
Here are some helpful books on the subject of...
Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman
After Silence: Rape & My Journey Back by Nancy V. Raine
Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender by A. Nicholas Groth
Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us by Robert D. Hare
Thou Shalt Not Be Aware: Society's Betrayal of the Child by Alice Miller
Miss America by Day: Lessons Learned from Ultimate Betrayals and Unconditional Love by Marilyn Van Derbur
Outrageous Betrayal: The Dark Journey of Werner Erhard from est to Exile by Steven Pressman
Crazy For God: The Nightmare of Cult Life by ex-Moon disciple, Christopher Edwards
The Mind Field by Robert Ornstein
The King's Son: Readings in the Traditional Psychologies and Contemporary Thought on Man - compiled by Robert Cecil, Richard Rieu, and David Wade
A Perfumed Scorpion
Caravan of Dreams
Seeker After Truth
Observations
Reflections by Idries Shah
___________________________
"From the moment you are born, you become a moving target for the world. You may be much more than this, but do you remember that you are a target as well?" (Idries Shah)
"The moment you entered this world of form, an escape ladder was put out for you." (Rumi)
Gotta love this:
Yes, another cult video
http://www.mariabamford.com/clip_pgs/clip_ccp1.shtml
For some reason, link didn't work, try this:
http://www.mariabamford.com/com_clips.shtml
Hey, sorry all - when at Maria Bamford's Video clips page, select
Comedy Central Presents
"First CCCP Special, Clip 1"
Below is a revised version of some comments I published on the Rick Ross website in 2010 under the pen name, my true voice.
Sharon is getting older, and once she dies, the “school” could easily disband.
I’ve been out of the Boston branch of this faux “school” for several years, but before I left I thought Robert was getting burnt out. The younger teachers in Boston lack the charisma to keep the group going. It might be different in New York, but I doubt it. Over the years, Robert stopped attending classes for long periods of time that would span months, maybe even a year or two. The junior teachers leading the classes would bring up in ominous tones the possibility of classes disbanding, and tell us not to take the “school” for granted. I believe some of Robert’s absences were due to health issues, but some of them, I think, were because he just wanted a break from it all.
Robert would frequently complain and berate us older students about how terrible and uninspiring we looked during class. (Probably 90 percent of us were just counting the minutes for class to end so we could go home and get some sleep! …and he knew it). I’m sure Robert did not want to be there, and could easily think of a dozen other things he’d rather be doing.
As Robert gets older, his drive and stamina will only diminish. He’ll want to spend more time in Florida and less time in Boston and New York. Certainly less time working on lectures! And whatever ails him will only get worse as the years go by.
In Boston, the student population is aging, and I’m sure it must be the same in New York. Most of the older group falls in the 50 -60 year age range right now, with a good number of students over 60. My sense is many of them do not have the financial means to stay in school during their retirement years. Paying tuition on time has always taken precedence over saving for retirement. And if you were fortunate enough to be able to save something after paying all the regular tuition and class fees, you would get hit up for cash for special projects. And if students can’t pay, they can’t stay….Right?
-continued-
-continued from above-
Many of my fellow classmates had some mysterious illnesses that likely stem from lack of sleep and a weakened immune system. As the group ages, these illnesses and others will increase and further reduce the number of students attending clases. And as the average age of students goes up, it will become harder to attract younger and more energetic new students.
I’ve heard that School is having a hard time recruiting, and the pressure is intense to get new students in the door. This poses several problems for the continuation of School.
Students on the fence about the group will finally get fed up with the oppressive recruiting pressures and decide to leave. And without the results to puff up their egos, even the best recruiters will inevitably get tired of the relentless quest for new students and decide to spend more time painting, acting or being with their kids. They may stick around for classes, but will lose their enthusiasm for “adding new people to their list” and having all those endless meetings. As more students leave or slow down, it forces those students left behind to question why they’re sticking around. A mass exodus is possible.
And for the younger class, it’s got to be disheartening to see the newest students leave, whether it’s after the free eight class experiment ends, or longer.
And for those trusting “Seekers of the Truth” who join this group, there’s plenty of red flags signaling the need for extreme caution. All the rules and secrecy, veiled as “protecting privacy”, the emphasis on not using the internet, the solicitous attention of your sustainer, Xeroxed copies of books and lectures handed to you without an author’s name so you can’t trace where the teaching comes from, among other things. Of course, there are the lies you tell to family and friends about where you go on Tuesday and Thursday nights. And don’t forget the emphasis on tuition, not missing classes, and always telling the truth to your teachers. Isn’t it bizarre how no one disagrees with the teachers, or how obsequious and pandering everyone is around them? There must be dozens of tip offs that something’s wrong with this group.
And I’m sure at the back of their mind, every new student wonders if the group is a cult or not. The "teachers" and sustainers will never know when new students start doing some online investigating. The new students can’t help themselves, and inevitably they find enough material to convince them to leave.
There are enough loyal and diehard students for “school” to limp along for awhile, but eventually it’s going to just run out of steam and die. If I were Robert or Fred, I would stop now while I still have some vigor and energy left. They could finally have some time to themselves, and pursue the perfect tan or the perfect starlet, or whatever else makes them happy. It’s clearly not looking at us, sitting in our dreary little circle, for class, after class, after class, after endless class.
But I have a different view from the outside, and more freedom. I am only one of many ex-students who woke up and had the courage to leave. We care deeply for those that are still in, and I would imagine the current students care and wonder about us, too. Please know that it’s so good to be out, so freeing, so wonderful. We wish everyone inside could experience this joy for themselves.
Major exodus in the last week in Boston! At least 11 people from a "class" of 25 now out. Excellent work done by many brave, brave people. Let the healing begin!
Catch this:
http://www.yellowbook.com/profile/osg-llc_1862408505.html
I LOVE IT!!!
Right in the Yellow Pages!
Osg LLC
263 W 38th St
New York, NY 10018-4483
(212) 929-1777
In case anybody didn't know already...
I originally wrote a longer piece, but the detail might have identified me.
I'm one of the 11 who left. There were only 17 in that class, not 25. So it's a pretty small group now.
I may have misspoken on the number because I forgot the 4 "youngest" members who joined last fall. So 21, people with 10 left.
That's really great to hear so many people left.
Any word on the numbers of the NY groups?
don't know about numbers leaving - at least not yet. I just wouldn't be surprised to hear some people in NYC's "older" class finally started waking up to reality and are making their way out the door.
One thing is for sure, if someone in your 'class' isn't there anymore they aren't 'doing other work' somewhere else. Even if they were an 'older student'.
They've left school.
It's not mysterious like they want you to think.
This has to be kept very quiet, if the rest of the class knew how many people were leaving or talking about leaving now they would have a very hard time keeping people in line.
There would be the potential of wide spread panic and a great deal of frustration.
Think about it, what would the teachers say? That everyone that has left has a low level of being and are weak?
Maybe that's not the answer, you should ask them and see what they say. Why are so many leaving and no one coming in?
There was a post awhile back that made a good point about recruiting. It would not be necessary if it was really a good thing - people would be coming to them.
Remember, you owe them NO explanation whatsoever as to why you are leaving.
They will respect this because they have drilled it into you not to explain anything to anyone - they should be no different.
Take some time off to see what it's like on the other side for a while. See if there is any truth to this blog.
You can do it. It's time...
Younger class in Boston is up to 12 who have left!!
Excellent news! Last I heard the numbers in NY were dwindling.
To Marat,
I've made a list of those who've left the two "older" New York groups during the past four years. Here are the counts:
--Monday/Wednesday: 25 left "school", 2 added, and four transferred to the "uptown"* group. Net change: Minus 27.
--Tuesday/Thursday: 23 left "school", none added. Transferred: unknown. Net change: Minus 23.
Pretty shocking, isn't it?
*"Uptown" group was Alex Horn's separate NYC group (12-15 students; $500/month tuition), which was extensively reorganized after Horn's death in late 2007.
Dear Ajax,
thanks so much for the update - what year does the count start? I know about seventeen people left the new york groups (both classes) in 2000 -
btw, I'm sure it's been done, thought of, but I called the IRS and reported to them the shady financial dealings of OSG LLC, and also asked them to investigate the operations of Bob Klein's dial a mattress franchises. I also wrote to the American Chirpractic assn, and the Board of applied Kinesiologists, asking them to investigate fred mindel for bad practices regarding finance, and also treatment - he seriously messed up my back worst than it ever was and it was years of physical therapy to be able to cope with the ongoing problem. School took a sometime issue and made it a full time disability - is that their goal?
Dear Marat,
Your posting was great. I wish everyone who was hurt by Bob, Sharon, and Fred would bombard the "authorities" - there is strength in numbers!
Has anyone contacted Eric Schneiderman, the AG for NYC who is head of the new task force? I think this guy Joe Stillwell should be reported to them - I bet he took advantage of any investment loophole he could. He's such a sad, boring schmuck, it's a shame he's hooked onto Sharon's teat, but he shouldn't be allowed to rip people off.
Marat,
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't sure about calling them, but I am now. I will make a call to the IRS as well.
Strenght in numbers!
Here is a link to the IRS site, it has the correct form to fill out for reporting suspected tax fraud:
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html
You can do this without identifying yourself.
Submitted the form to the IRS today!
thank you, candyman and marat - I will submit my form today - and I will also ask my friends who work in financial services to do what they can.
This is actually a message for Cher_Tea. Cher: I was also under the influence of the exact same guru leader. I am out of it (thank god) but I want to try and get in contact with you. How can I? Honestly, I am concerned about my privacy ... even putting my name on the internet. The cult still scares me. Thank god I got out. Just comment back if you can :-) ... if you are here.
To Jack Turnbull. Hi, this is Cher_Tea. I am still here, as I feel a kinship with these fellow travelers and follow the postings/comments. Many people traveled through the Magical Group in Beverly. I was there for some time and do not recognize your name. When were you there and in what capacity, if I may ask. I understand about the fear, I still struggle with it myself. But the courage of these people on this blog, especially its founder is uplifting to say the least. I sent an email to what I believe is your address. Visit the EsotericFreedom.com website. Follow the directions to create a safe email address. I would be happy to speak with you if you wish. Visit UpperLobby.blogspot.com
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